#66 Inside CNCF: Driving Kubernetes Growth and Global Community Building

In this episode of the Dutch Kubernetes Podcast, hosts Ronald Kers and Jan Stomphorst sit down with two special guests from the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF), Audra Montenegro and Katie Greenley, to discuss the growth of Kubernetes and the role of the CNCF in supporting the global Kubernetes community.

Audra is a core program manager at CNCF, overseeing the Kubernetes Community Days (KCD) and Cloud Native Community Groups (CNCG) programs. Katie, on the other hand, has been with CNCF for nine years and manages community and marketing, focusing on ambassador programs, event marketing strategies, and supporting CNCF projects.

The conversation begins with introductions and an exploration of each guest’s role at CNCF. They dive into topics such as Kubernetes certifications, including the CKA, CKAD, and CKS, which validate expertise in Kubernetes administration, application development, and security. Audra and Katie emphasize the importance of these certifications and the commitment required to achieve them.

The episode also touches on the planning of large-scale events like KubeCon, how these events continue to evolve, and the CNCF’s growing global influence. Both guests share insights into the CNCF's Ambassador Program, explaining how community members can contribute and gain recognition by organizing events, writing content, or leading meetups.

A strong focus is placed on diversity and inclusion in the community, with both Audra and Katie highlighting CNCF’s initiatives to foster a more diverse and inclusive environment. The conversation wraps up by discussing the future of Kubernetes, the rise of platform engineering, AI, and the increasing importance of sustainability in tech event

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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:20:28
Ronald
Welkom bij een nieuwe aflevering van de Nederlandse Kubernetes Podcast. De podcast over Kubernetes voor iedereen. Ik ben Ronald Kers en ik zit hier met

00:00:20:33 - 00:00:21:47
Jan
Hallo Ronald.

00:00:21:52 - 00:00:25:21
Ronald
Jan Stopmhorst, Solutions architect bij ACC ICT.

00:00:25:31 - 00:00:32:28
Jan
Zeker. En we hebben een gesprek met mensen uit Amerika. Dat is geweldig!

00:00:32:32 - 00:00:44:15
Ronald
Ja, en daar maken we graag een uitzondring voor op de late uurtjes. So, without further ado, I would like to introduce, Audra and Katie, welcome from CNCF.

00:00:44:20 - 00:00:46:27
Audra
Thank you. Ronald. Thank you. Jan.

00:00:46:31 - 00:00:48:06
Katie
Yeah. Thank you.

00:00:48:10 - 00:00:49:36
Audra
For being here.

00:00:49:40 - 00:00:55:03
Ronald
To start, with, with Audra, can you please introduce yourselves to, to our listeners?

00:00:55:08 - 00:01:22:21
Audra
Absolutely. So my name is Audra Montenegro. I currently work at CNCF as a core program manager for two specific programs. One is the KCD program, Kubernetes Community Days, and the other is our CNCG program. So Cloud Native Community Groups. And previously I worked at O'Reilly media for over seven years working on global events, specifically on the content side with the program committee and program chairs.

00:01:22:26 - 00:01:37:12
Audra
So that's my that's my main gig prior to Cncf. So open source is in my blood. And then in between, I did, you know, the virtual shift that a lot of us had to do during the pandemic at, a startup called DataStax.

00:01:37:17 - 00:01:48:00
Jan
Okay. Nice. The KCD that's the Kubernetes Community Days. And, they're specific for every country, are they?

00:01:48:05 - 00:02:10:23
Audra
So it did kind of start that and country level. But now that they've grown, they've gone to a city level. So yeah, we've when I joined in 2022, we had 12 KCD's out of 16, and then we doubled to 32 the following year. And then we're tracking to 35 this year. But two of those are virtual.

00:02:10:28 - 00:02:12:45
Ronald
And, Katie, can you please introduce yourself?

00:02:12:57 - 00:02:57:13
Katie
I'm Katie Greeley. I work for the CNCF Cloud Native Computing Foundation. I've been on the CNCF for the last nine years. Ten years at the Linux Foundation. Overall. I run our community and marketing for CNCF. So focusing on, programs like ambassadors and, supporting Audra, but the Kubernetes community days supporting, Audra when it comes to our cloud native community groups and then, helping to provide, marketing strategy around, CNCF related projects, as well as just the CNCF as a whole.

00:02:57:18 - 00:03:10:54
Katie
Is kind of what I do for, for the foundation. And like I said, I've been here nine glorious years, started out in events and then migrated over to, the marketing side of things.

00:03:10:58 - 00:03:17:08
Jan
Does CNCF needs a lot of marketing. I think it's selling itself?

00:03:17:13 - 00:03:45:52
Katie
It does sell itself. But yeah, there is, a lot of marketing that happens behind the scenes, right? We still need people who, come up with campaigns around, like our Kubesternaut program. We need people to help with, creating content. Right. There's the Cncf, host or staff posted blogs. So we need, people who are kind of running that portion of it.

00:03:45:57 - 00:04:12:58
Katie
We obviously need, campaigns around Kubecons, and Cloud Native cons, but also our smaller events, a lot of people may not know. So, like, from Prom Con Europe is happening in September. You've got litmus chaos con that's happening in September, Dapper Days happening in October. And these are all project specific events.

00:04:13:03 - 00:04:18:15
Katie
And we still need someone from a marketing side providing the support for those.

00:04:18:19 - 00:04:21:36
Ronald
Yeah. You also got there is, Sustainability Week coming up.

00:04:21:41 - 00:04:31:09
Katie
Yeah. Sustainability week is another one that's a big focus for our marketing team as well. And definitely, from a social standpoint.

00:04:31:13 - 00:04:35:49
Audra
And our community groups are big participants in that. On a meetup side.

00:04:35:54 - 00:04:49:05
Jan
I always you read the Kube weekly, mail, thing that's I think that's awesome. And I was reading about, the Kubernetes Argonauts or, gosh, what else?

00:04:49:10 - 00:04:50:10
Katie
Kubesternauts

00:04:50:15 - 00:04:56:56
Jan
Kubesternauts, yeah. And we've got 500. Kubesternauts at the moment I often think that's awesome.

00:04:56:58 - 00:05:13:03
Katie
Cuz it's really awesome. It's nice to see that program, really grow. But people to get the recognition right doing these certifications are no easy feat. It takes a lot of like, planning. And, what is the word that I'm looking for?

00:05:13:08 - 00:05:14:09
Audra
A lot of commitment.

00:05:14:09 - 00:05:42:43
Katie
For the commitment. Yeah, but like studying. Yeah, studying. Definitely to be able to take the exam. So I think it's a great, feature that we have that got implemented this year. Because someone who's done five exams like that to further their career path to further their education within Kubernetes, and, and cloud native in general really should be, recognized for that because it does take up a lot of time and commitment.

00:05:42:48 - 00:05:45:20
Jan
So Ronald, do you know what it is?

00:05:45:25 - 00:05:55:57
Ronald
Well, from the the story she told this, like you need five exams to kind of you need to qualify in the Cncf space in total or is Kubernetes related.

00:05:56:02 - 00:06:07:58
Katie
It's five specific Kubernetes related exams. So it's oh you're really going to test my. It's all my knowledge on this one, right. Certified.

00:06:07:58 - 00:06:21:13
Audra
Kubernetes security exam. Yeah. The CCNa. So the Kubernetes certified, oh my god as their applications. So they'll get.

00:06:21:18 - 00:06:47:58
Katie
Certified to you ready? Yeah. Administrator, the CKA, certified Kubernetes, the application developer, CKAD, certified Kubernetes security specialist, CKS. Kubernetes cloud native associate the KCNA Kubernetes cloud security associated, KCSA.

00:06:48:03 - 00:06:49:30
Audra
Yeah, so many acronyms here.

00:06:49:30 - 00:06:59:42
Katie
So many out of yeah. And you asked about it. All I could think of was the acronyms. I was going to be like, yeah, so CKD, IC. And I was like, no one's going to know what that means.

00:06:59:47 - 00:07:05:48
Jan
And from, from my perspective, the security ones are the most difficult.

00:07:05:52 - 00:07:18:52
Katie
Yeah. That's, that's something I hear quite frequently within the community is that the security ones are very difficult. And it takes a lot of extra, setting to be able to pass them.

00:07:18:57 - 00:07:26:12
Ronald
Yeah, but security is also one of the most important things. So you can, as you make can make it a little bit more difficult.

00:07:26:16 - 00:07:27:55
Audra
Yeah. there is a good reason.

00:07:27:55 - 00:07:43:03
Ronald
Yeah. There's a good reason to make it more difficult. Yeah. So I have a question for both of you. Just to wind it back a little bit. So what's the drew you both to the CNCF? Why is, open source so important to you?

00:07:43:08 - 00:07:55:28
Audra
So, as I mentioned, I was with O'Reilly media for over seven years. So they were the first publishers back in the late 70s, early 80s of open source programing language books. So tomorrow they're.

00:07:55:33 - 00:07:56:57
Jan
Still selling books.

00:07:57:01 - 00:08:24:40
Audra
They are, but, they're more the virtual books, right? Or the ebooks? I should say. But they do give away some physical stuff at events that they sponsor, like they sponsor KubeCon every year, for example. But that since they did away with their, in-person events, they shuttered them back when the pandemic happened, they focused on these super streams and online training.

00:08:24:45 - 00:08:56:51
Audra
And so, what I was saying was I worked heavily with the open source community, whether it was in software architecture, or more on like front end velocity and then the development around, front end architecture or even solid. So that's like your, your hardware, as well it was more on like robotics. And then strato, which was the data conference, but these were all surrounding open source technologies that supported these topic areas.

00:08:56:56 - 00:09:30:05
Audra
So CNCF attracted me because it's very similar in the sense of spreading the knowledge of innovators and supporting these people who dedicate their free time to open source. And just a huge advocate for it and it scaling companies. I mean, the open transparency aspect of it all, really can bring a lot to people's architecture and, and sustain their stack, make sure that it's quality for me.

00:09:30:05 - 00:10:00:48
Katie
As I noted, I started working for the Linux Foundation ten years ago. I came in from like an interesting background. I worked for a tech company prior to coming to the Linux Foundation. But prior to that, I worked for a nonprofit invertebrate zoo, and I always really liked the nonprofit portion of it. A tech kind of found its way into my my work path as I kind of decided, you know, how to move forward.

00:10:00:48 - 00:10:20:54
Katie
And from there, tech really took a primary because of all the changes that it's always bringing to the to the world. I always thought that was kind of cool to be part of that. Right? It's always changing every single day. Nothing seems to so it's always a challenge. So when the Linux Foundation was hiring, I felt like that merged my two.

00:10:21:09 - 00:10:44:47
Katie
passions really nicely, I brought in the nonprofit portion of it, but also the tech portion. And then, to bring in open source, which I didn't know much about ten years ago. Learning that like, it's it's about bringing the collective many to do work together to do something that one person would do right. Like one.

00:10:44:47 - 00:11:11:25
Katie
Many minds are better than one mind. Really kind of stuck with me. It has been a reason why I've stayed in the open source sector for for the last ten years because, as much as I like to think I have all the answers, I know I don't have all the answers. So it's really great to be in an industry where people remind you, that you should have all the answers or, or help grow on your ideas, which is the best art, right?

00:11:11:33 - 00:11:32:58
Katie
I come forward with an idea and someone comes in with like, oh, well, what if we do this? And what if we took it this way and then I'm like, I didn't even think about that because my mind was so tunnel vision on one way. So it really allows you to, to step outside of yourself and to work as a team, which I, I think I thrive better in.

00:11:33:03 - 00:12:01:42
Katie
And then, like I said, for the last nine years, it's been primarily CNCF focused. I came in from the event standpoint of like running KubeCon and all the other events that, CNCF has put on throughout the year. You know, helping to support run Prom Con, gRPC Con of things like that. Have always kind of been a passion and just the community within the CNCF is electric.

00:12:01:42 - 00:12:29:22
Katie
It's the best way I can describe it. Right? Like electric. Everyone's so excited and everyone has so many ideas and they're so welcoming and they're there hasn't been kind of like this feeling of possibilities that the project can do. It's like, oh, but what if we go here and then it's like, oh yeah, we could go there and, and the I kind of like that it comes with its own set of challenges as we bring in more projects.

00:12:29:22 - 00:12:54:20
Katie
Right. We're at 190 different projects underneath the CNCF umbrella. We have all these. Yeah, it's a lot. We have all these different programs. We do a lot of different things. So, CNCF keeps me on my toes as much as it can drive me crazy at days. It also challenges me in a really positive way of wanting to be the best version of myself when it comes to work.

00:12:54:25 - 00:12:59:06
Jan
Is it not becoming too big?

00:12:59:11 - 00:13:32:12
Katie
You know. I think we could always be bigger. I think a lot of people on the team can feel that way, too. I think there's a lot of possibilities within, the cloud native applications and different vertical that we can be, just venturing in. I will say that in order for us to continue to grow at the, capacity that we're growing, it would be nice to have additional people on staff to help support it.

00:13:32:16 - 00:13:46:54
Katie
And we are looking at that from a CNCF standpoint of how do we utilize our resources that we have today and what resources do we need tomorrow? To be able to continue to grow the way that you.

00:13:46:58 - 00:13:54:16
Ronald
But you're only located in the US right there. Well, do you also have an overseas office?

00:13:54:21 - 00:14:16:22
Katie
So the CNCF, we're a global company, so it's, people based all over the place. We don't have a specific office there is. Okay. Like the Linux Foundation technically has an office, but it's like where mail goes to, but that's pretty much it. We do have a European office as well, again, where mail goes.

00:14:16:22 - 00:14:41:06
Katie
So, but everybody works from home. It's been that way. So since the beginning, since I've been here for the last ten years. And I think even before that, they just recognized that they could get really great talent and really great people in the right roles if they didn't limit where people worked from and where they were based, and if they gave people the flexibility to work from home.

00:14:41:06 - 00:14:49:14
Katie
Right. Like, I have the flexibility to set my hours and get my work done based off of the schedule that fits for me and my family.

00:14:49:19 - 00:15:01:03
Audra
That's a beauty of a global community too, right? So it's like, oh, okay, at night I'm going to touch base with the Asia-Pacific folks, and then early in the morning I'll touch base. So the European folks and.

00:15:01:08 - 00:15:21:23
Ronald
Yeah, you're all over the world. No I don't yeah, yeah. But cool. I hear you talk about, KubeCon and we've been to two KubeCons now, with a, with the podcast. And, we are looking forward to the next one. Can you walk us through a little bit into the planning of something? So such a large event as KubeCon?

00:15:21:34 - 00:15:51:01
Katie
Yeah. So for KubeCon cloud native cons, a lot of people, I don't think, recognize that it takes many years to put those events on. We're looking at, locations two, three, four years out. Because we've got a we've got a subset of like standards of, like what places we can go to it, like, is the venues large enough to, accommodate us.

00:15:51:09 - 00:16:17:46
Katie
Right. Can it, feed, you know, 10,000 people, like, do they have the catering in place, things like that. There's a lot of different, like, factors that play into it. But once these start planning, a kubecon, there's, a team of, like, like 15 event planners who are planning all kinds of different aspects. Because KubeCon is a layered KubeCon Cloud Native Con.

00:16:17:47 - 00:16:46:05
Katie
It's a layered event. You've got someone who's kind of, like, primarily overseeing, the event in the strategy and ensuring that we're, growing with what the community needs. Right. There's a lot of times where the community comes forward and, and recommends tracks that we should be adding into, the, into the CFP process and, and overall for the event.

00:16:46:10 - 00:17:09:09
Katie
So it's like someone who has to, like, oversee that track, like those things coming in and how do we place it within the event, and do we have enough space to be able to accommodate that? What is the room size of. So you've got people who have, very specific roles and it's, it's a lot and, and some people, work on several different tasks on top of it.

00:17:09:09 - 00:17:38:24
Katie
So you've got people who are running like rooms that are making sure that we have enough rooms to accommodate, not just like the primary program, but also all the ancillary events that take place. So that's like your empower us. And, and the party attendee probably like. Yeah. And then, you've got like a mentorship program like mentor, workshops.

00:17:38:24 - 00:18:02:28
Katie
So there's lots of different things that happen. So someone oversees the rooms, you've got someone who's helping with the content. So they're working with the co-chairs, to keep the co-chairs, on task, and that they're reviewing things, and, they're, you know, guiding them through the process of how to plan Kubecon because we rotate host co-chairs frequently.

00:18:02:33 - 00:18:21:14
Katie
They do it for a full year, and then they, are three, three Kubecons, and then they move on to, move out and a new person comes in. So it's someone's job to be able to, like, you've got to educate someone and teach them the process as they come in new. And then by the second Kube- Cloud Native Con, they've got it.

00:18:21:14 - 00:18:48:52
Katie
And then by the third they've got it down. And a new person's kind of coming in at that point too. Like a shadow. So yeah. Exactly. So you've got that kind of happening. And then they've got to oversee all the content that comes in, all the CFP, and working with, the program committee to ensure that they're on task with, like reviewing, and then they're taking that over the track chairs and then the trap chairs are reviewing and and bubbling it up to the co-chairs.

00:18:48:52 - 00:19:10:35
Katie
Right. So it's like a lot of project management is, a big portion of event planning. Right? It's it's all these different perspectives that kind of come into play. And they all kind of work together. And if one person, is struggling, which is the best part of the events team is, people come in and help support that person.

00:19:10:35 - 00:19:12:13
Katie
So we're really lucky in that.

00:19:12:18 - 00:19:13:46
Ronald
Yeah, Audra?

00:19:13:51 - 00:19:28:28
Audra
I was just going to say that there's the team that manages sponsorships, a team that manages marketing, a team that manages registration, specific person that manages the scholarships, the Dan Kohn scholarships. It's a lot of moving parts, for sure.

00:19:28:33 - 00:19:31:59
Ronald
Yeah, yeah. You also take the need to take into account it gets bigger every year.

00:19:32:04 - 00:19:33:47
Jan
Yep. I was.

00:19:33:52 - 00:20:02:33
Katie
Mean. Yeah. It does every every year it does. And and every I would say every KubeCon. As much as, like we say, oh, this is the plan for the year. What the needs for KubeCon cloud native con Europe is not the same. Needs that Kubecon cloud native con China needs or Kubecon Cloud Native Con of North America needs or even now our newest KubeCon Cloud Native Con of India.

00:20:02:33 - 00:20:22:54
Katie
Right. So it's not like, there's some copy and paste from each event, but it's not a copy and paste event every single time. We've got to really listen to what the community needs at that time and what the community is focused on. In terms of technology, but also the the overall foundation and project.

00:20:22:58 - 00:20:27:43
Jan
Which one is bigger, the American one,

00:20:27:48 - 00:20:51:39
Katie
As of right now for of those four KubeCon cloud native con Europe, is one of our biggest KubeCons to date. This year in 2024. But I don't know where we'll end up with numbers when it comes to KubeCon cloud native North America. We're still right in the process of registrations. And, we'll have a better idea when we get closer to the event.

00:20:51:54 - 00:20:58:46
Katie
You know, what size of how you know where kind of compares to Europe versus North America.

00:20:58:51 - 00:21:03:52
Ronald
Now, I also heard that Africa has also an upcoming, technical, technology. Part of the world.

00:21:03:57 - 00:21:21:09
Katie
Yeah. Yeah. Africa is a upcoming, tech hub for the world. And it is something that we are supporting through our Kubernetes Community Days program. We've had, one event that's happened in Africa, correct? Audra.

00:21:21:14 - 00:21:43:50
Audra
Yeah, there was a virtual event where I know the Nigerian folks are looking to do an in-person one. They tried this year, but it didn't work out as a co-located event. Then in Ghana, there is a virtual event happening this year as well. And so there, there communities out there, and if they're not producing KCD's, they're, they're producing meetups for their community groups.

00:21:43:55 - 00:21:46:52
Katie
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So starting to see the growth.

00:21:46:57 - 00:22:07:33
Ronald
Yeah. It's so cool to to see how it is crossing borders everywhere. You know, it's soon becoming a very large community for every part of the world. I think there are very few events or the things in the world are like this. So it's really great. Great to see. The only thing I would like to, to remark about the KubeCon is don't do it.

00:22:07:33 - 00:22:10:52
Ronald
Don't do it during Ramadan.

00:22:10:57 - 00:22:11:25
Katie
Yeah.

00:22:11:25 - 00:22:15:09
Ronald
We, three years in a row, I couldn't eat.

00:22:15:14 - 00:22:37:25
Katie
Yeah, it is something that our. That's another thing, right? Is we have, an event person who's looking at the the calendar, and we have a certain kind of like, here's the, the set months that we're looking at to host the event. Right. It's not like, oh, we always host it on, you know, March 2nd through March 6th.

00:22:37:30 - 00:23:04:34
Katie
I'm throwing out random dates, but, we typically are like between March to May is kind of what we're looking at for the time frame for Europe. And then we've got to go out to different, convention centers with a, request for proposal. And it depends on like which ones come back to us, which ones fit the standards that we have and then what dates they have open.

00:23:04:39 - 00:23:30:46
Katie
So we're a little bit kind of, a bit of a mercy of like what the convention centers have. Some of them don't even have, dates depending on like when you're looking, which is why we're currently looking at, like six years out, eight years out right now for KubeCons because we we're so large, we have to really start planning that far in advance to ensure that we're getting the dates that we want.

00:23:30:46 - 00:23:36:34
Katie
So it is something that we've heard from the community, and it is something that someone's taking into consideration when they're looking at these.

00:23:36:36 - 00:23:46:34
Ronald
Yeah, like like a special lunch box for those people to ask something in the evening because they can't eat the lunch or during the day. But just some idea’s, I can think of.

00:23:46:39 - 00:24:02:08
Katie
I love it. I will pass it on to the event team. I can't make any guarantees, but they always get. They always love those kind of requests because we do, really, pride ourselves of putting a focus on what the community needs.

00:24:02:13 - 00:24:15:11
Ronald
Yeah, yeah. We've also been to the diversity and inclusion, meetup, during KubeCon also. So it's really nice to see there is a lot like, a lot of different things happening in that aspect. So yeah, cool.

00:24:15:16 - 00:24:22:54
Jan
Yeah. That's awesome. So the next one, is in, America and which dates are those?

00:24:22:58 - 00:24:52:19
Katie
Yeah. KubeCon Cloud Native Con North America is happening November 12th through the 15th. In Salt Lake City, Utah. We're really excited about that event. Salt Lake City is, a surprising tech hub that, is has grown over the last few years that we're excited to, see what that community there can bring forth for KubeCon, Cloud Native Con and CNCF in general.

00:24:52:24 - 00:24:58:18
Jan
So on the next one, in Europe is going to be 1 to 4 of April in London.

00:24:58:22 - 00:25:00:24
Audra
In London? Yeah.

00:25:00:28 - 00:25:18:56
Katie
And then and then we already announced all the way out through, 2026. So, it will be, Salt Lake City, then, London, then Altanta, and then Amsterdam and then Los Angeles.

00:25:19:01 - 00:25:21:15
Jan
Amsterdam we like that.

00:25:21:55 - 00:25:25:28
Ronald
I would prefer to have it in Spain or something like that, but,

00:25:25:33 - 00:25:28:37
Jan
That would also be awesome.

00:25:28:42 - 00:25:29:13
Audra
Have.

00:25:29:18 - 00:25:47:02
Katie
We've been to Spain twice. And there is always the possibility we could go back to it. It is, on a list of, of venues that can accommodate KubeCon. Yeah. When that will happen, I can't tell you, but it is on the list. You know, we've hosted in both Barcelona and Valencia.

00:25:47:07 - 00:25:56:44
Ronald
Oh, okay. or in Italy, because we have. So, as you know, we've got a lot of Italians here in the Netherlands. In the community groups,

00:25:56:49 - 00:26:15:24
Katie
And we have a very, robust Italian community, in Italy as well, that they host their own KCD. They have a very successful cloud native community group. And they would love to have a KubeCon cloud native con north of our EU. And in Italy, we hear it quite frequently.

00:26:15:28 - 00:26:22:52
Ronald
So looking at the KCD and community driven events. How do you see they have evolved over the years?

00:26:22:57 - 00:26:46:18
Audra
I can jump in on this one. So I mean, we talked a little bit about it in the beginning with it being more country based in terms of naming and attracting, folks that are you know, it's more welcoming if you name it, on the country based event. But at the same token, we found over time that more people within a country would like to host as well.

00:26:46:22 - 00:27:11:42
Audra
Granted, every region is different, right? European countries are very small. India is huge. For example, China is huge. So, they evolved in the sense that if we were going to name these KCD’S by city, the Europeans tend to take it more like a tour. So, hey, in Italy, let's do it in Milan this year. Let's do it in Bologna this year.

00:27:11:47 - 00:27:30:24
Audra
And, and some groups kind of travel with each other and work together, but then others are like, oh, I'm going to host one in Berlin and I want to host one in Munich. And they collaborate together on a different scale, but at least they're, you know, open and transparent about timing or if they're even going to do a KCD that year.

00:27:30:28 - 00:27:57:25
Audra
And then, you know, maybe do some community partnership work in terms of marketing each other's events. But yeah, in terms of, you know, the evolution of these events, some of them are getting really big too. And we're like, hey, this doesn't feel like a community event when it's over 500 people because you lack that intimacy. Then there's a higher stress with the liability in terms of what sponsorship expectations are.

00:27:57:30 - 00:28:15:09
Audra
So we we really wanted to make sure that the initial goal for these CD is being, you know, 150 to 300 size in terms of attendees stuck around and really felt like they had that intimate learning experience and that mindshare.

00:28:15:14 - 00:28:18:58
Ronald
Okay. So that's why you made the change for the KCD 2.0.

00:28:19:03 - 00:28:50:04
Audra
Exactly. So you mentioned 2.0. We just launched the refresh of the program on August 5th. And we are looking to support KCD’s with monetary support as well as more, in-person appearances and, grander perks that are more dedicated on quality over quantity. And like Katie mentioned, we are a small team. So, you know, we can we can provide that quality at a certain number and then of course, budget properly.

00:28:50:04 - 00:28:57:29
Audra
So what that means is only 30 KCD's next year. So we can properly support them.

00:28:57:34 - 00:29:21:30
Ronald
Okay. Yeah. Because as maybe as you know, we've also heard from the current KCD organizers globally are having some concerns about restrictions. Restrictions is imposed in the 2.0 version is there something you can, say to them to maybe a so, help them out a little bit because.

00:29:21:35 - 00:29:57:52
Katie
Yeah. I'm glad that you brought that up. We and when I say we Audra I myself have hosted a lot of calls with many of the organizers over the last few weeks since the announcement of the 2.0 program. And we're inviting anyone who's, you know, has hosted in the past or looking to host to feel free to reach out to us because we are always happy to answer those questions, especially when it comes to what they feel could be restrictions.

00:29:57:57 - 00:30:27:29
Katie
What I can say is in order for us to be able to sustain the program and for the program to grow properly, and, for us to provide the resources and the strategy behind how we utilize the program and the whole kind of like matrix that is the CNCF. We have to put some standardization in place.

00:30:27:34 - 00:30:50:42
Katie
And we're the the best part of open source, right, is I think we're kind of learning by doing. Right. We've implemented this program and we at first didn't know where it was going to go or what kind of reception it was going to get. Is it going to be a program that people want to be participating in, or was it going to be a program that we hosted for a year and then it went away?

00:30:50:47 - 00:31:24:30
Katie
So we've got to kind of, now that we've had it run successfully for two years, how to take a look at it from a microscope of, like, what's working? Well, what's not, what's the top request that we're getting? And we recognize that what we put in place may not fit for every KCD, right, there's going to be some KCD’s that have outgrown the size of the program, but we still want to support their program as they kind of venture forth into other areas when it comes to it.

00:31:24:45 - 00:31:57:33
Katie
But we have to put standardization in place, just to ensure that we're protecting the community and also protecting the brand, and that we're able to continue to move forward with providing the correct resources to, to scaling this program properly. I think we'll continue to see growth in the program starting, set forward after 2025 into 2026, and there may be additional revisions that come out of, the changes that we made in 24 or 2025 for 2026.

00:31:57:37 - 00:32:31:07
Katie
I think we're always that's the best part about CNCF. We're always looking to evolve and change and and be flexible and listen to the feedback. So anyone who is kind of worried about these standards, I welcome them to reach out to me and I'm happy to have a conversation with them. I personally think that some of these standards, you'll see little to no change in how you run your day to day program, with the exception of like, oh, now you're using a new tool that we're providing for you, right?

00:32:31:12 - 00:32:50:15
Ronald
Yeah. I think it's more like, it's I look at it from a little bit more from the outside. That's, is people getting the impression that the freedom and the whole community aspect is a little bit lost because of the new rules, and but, but the events are mostly self carried It's. You need to do as a community group.

00:32:50:15 - 00:33:16:46
Ronald
You have to look for your for the sponsors, the venue. You had to be the the liability aspect, the financial aspects, the the insurance aspect. And now, and then there was always the I think there was often the question from what can the CNCF do to help us in this? And I think you picked up that role, but you also put in some restriction on to have like, the certain standards you want to provide.

00:33:16:51 - 00:33:24:06
Ronald
And that's for those events, if I'm interpreted correctly, from where I'm sitting.

00:33:24:10 - 00:33:46:50
Katie
Yeah. And we've heard that a lot from a lot of people that they feel like the community aspect is getting a little lost. For me, I don't I don't think so. I think that this just helps to ensure that when you're working within the community, we're able to provide the level support that our team is able to do.

00:33:46:55 - 00:34:15:43
Katie
Within reason. Right? And yeah, I recognize that a lot of organizers who are hosting a KCD put in a lot of effort because it is not easy to do an event and they are taking on a lot of risk. And in their spare time and there's enough spare time off the often in their spare time. Yeah, a lot of them have full time jobs, and then they're doing this on top of it.

00:34:15:48 - 00:34:54:28
Katie
And to put on an event, can be a full time job. And, We've heard that a lot. I think, in order for us to. To make the changes that we need to for the program, it's going to feel like there's, like, some loss of community. I don't think that there is going to be, I don't from where I sit and from, the reviews and and even talking with leadership, it's, I think this is going to help the community in a lot of ways.

00:34:54:34 - 00:35:22:10
Katie
We have to provide some kind of standardization in the sense that, like, someone doesn't, misrepresent the, the Kubernetes branding, right, misuse of the trademarking. So we have to put some of that standardization in place, to ensure that. And it wasn't there before if we hadn't rolled this out when we first rolled out the program, I think there would have been less hesitation around it.

00:35:22:10 - 00:35:30:10
Katie
I think it's because, like, we're having to come in and kind of retroactively add these terms and it makes it a little bit harder, for people should.

00:35:30:10 - 00:35:49:49
Audra
Have been doing it all along, you know, because we do we do take on a lot of liability with code of conduct issues. If venues aren't paid off, if, speaker is all men or a speaker line up is all males, there's, just using our likeness alone. We do get a lot of responsibility thrown on our plate.

00:35:49:49 - 00:35:50:46
Audra
Yeah.

00:35:50:51 - 00:36:13:19
Katie
So I think that there's a way forward through all of this. And and again, like I said, we're hearing these, feedback. We're not taking it lightly in the sense of like, the CNCF is just going, oh, this is the way it has to be. But it is how we're moving forward for 2025. But that may change come 2026.

00:36:13:24 - 00:36:18:13
Jan
Yeah, yeah. So you're looking for more much more quality in the events.

00:36:18:18 - 00:37:04:07
Katie
Yeah, absolutely. I think we're looking for from a CNCF standpoint, it is definitely Audra I said it before, quality over quantity. And we've seen the program grow a lot. And we recognize that there's a lot of different places in the world that really benefit from being able to host in-person events and pulling the community together. But not every single community needs a KCD, and some communities can really benefit from, having frequent, cloud native community groups, on a regular basis that happen, you know, either monthly or bi monthly or quarterly.

00:37:04:12 - 00:37:35:37
Katie
Some can benefit from hosting like a study group for people to do, like, like certified Kubernetes. Administrator tests. Right? There's a lot of different ways that people can bring the community together. And it doesn't always have to be that formal KCD program. And that is kind of I think part of like this restructuring of the program is to have communities really think about, do they need a KCD?

00:37:35:42 - 00:38:01:54
Katie
Is that something that like, if you're in a community that is just starting out, like is a KCD the right approach for you? Probably not. Probably. Hosting a regular meetup is more appropriate, or hosting half a full day, like a half day program, just to see if people are interested in kind of doing a more formal, event would be a better approach.

00:38:01:58 - 00:38:13:07
Katie
I think that there's a lot of variations of ways people can bring their community together, but it doesn't always have to be in the KCD. No program is standard.

00:38:13:12 - 00:38:24:34
Jan
If people want to start up and meet up just starting small, can they, get help from CNCF to organize their meetups?

00:38:24:39 - 00:38:53:07
Audra
Absolutely. So, on our community website, community dot Cncf, io. We recently you just made the application process transparent, through GitHub issues. And so folks can apply for a chapter if there isn't already an existing one out there. And then we get them started with the assets that are needed, the platforms that are needed. I have office hours weekly.

00:38:53:07 - 00:39:17:51
Audra
If people just don't know where to start or they're struggling. Community connections. So, you know, asking the folks that are in their country, you know, how how does it work for you? You know, speaker introductions through the ambassador program or even internal CNCF folks are happy to come and speak, virtually at least if they can't in person.

00:39:17:56 - 00:39:42:19
Audra
But Katie has worked really hard on the ambassador program and expanding it. So we do have those arms and legs that extend out and represent CNCF’s core values and the projects properly. And so a lot of those opportunities, a lot of the opportunity that comes within ambassadorship is, is speaking. And we heard a lot from our community groups like this is this is hard to get started.

00:39:42:30 - 00:39:45:30
Audra
Yeah. So we're we're here to help get started.

00:39:45:30 - 00:39:54:54
Jan
And ambassadors just touching on that. How do you get to be an ambassador? And what does an ambassador do?

00:39:54:59 - 00:40:32:07
Katie
Yeah. So we have an application, that happens every like twice a year. So we do the first half and the second half. Right now, our application, or process is open right now for the second half, we have a set of kind of standards, and requirements when it comes to being an ambassador, it's, someone who's over the age of 18, someone who is actively involved in the community on, and one or more areas within the CNCF.

00:40:32:07 - 00:40:54:04
Katie
So that could be like someone who is a part of a tag. It doesn't mean they have to be a tag chair. It could just be that they regularly attend meetings and they're involved in contributing to the tag. They could be a maintainer on a project. They could have a dev sat score of. I think we have a minimum of, 30, dev stats.

00:40:54:09 - 00:41:25:49
Katie
So someone who's actively contributing consistently. So not even just being a maintainer, but just someone who's actively contributing to a project within Cncf and doing it quite frequently. Someone who is an organizer of a CD or someone who is an organizer of our cloud native community groups. So hosting the meetups on our cloud native, our community, Cncf, IO platform, someone who is regularly hosting content.

00:41:25:49 - 00:41:36:49
Katie
So if that was like something people love to do, it's like writing blogs about, different projects. But then this thing in Seattle for creating videos or podcasts or anything.

00:41:36:54 - 00:41:41:54
Ronald
Yeah, that was that was this actual, actual question. What do I need to do if we go back to that?

00:41:42:09 - 00:42:04:31
Katie
Yeah. I love it. You buried the lead a little bit. For me, it's it's anyone who is contributing and making an impact within the Cncf space. And it from from that standpoint, I think a lot of people always feel like to make an impact, you have to do a whole lot. And I just don't believe in that.

00:42:04:31 - 00:42:26:28
Katie
I think to make an impact, you have to do something really well, and, and enjoy doing it right. If you don't enjoy what you're doing, you're not going to be effective in anything that you do. So if if someone was thinking podcasting was the way that they should do it, like if you don't like the podcasting, don't do it.

00:42:26:33 - 00:42:56:35
Katie
Yeah. Both of you clearly love podcasting. It's very natural. It comes very easy. So like that is a great platform for you to present when you're filling out your ambassador, application. And it's something that we, we review. I, I and a team of like six other people review it. And I am the one that goes really in-depth on people's applications, where I actually listen to podcasts, I watch from videos, I read blogs.

00:42:56:40 - 00:43:15:03
Katie
So when we go through the process, it's a it takes a long time for, for the reviews and it's not something that is done lightly. And when it comes to it, it's, it's a lot of like how, how deep and how what do they and I can only really look at what people provide me in their application.

00:43:15:03 - 00:43:35:19
Katie
So that would be the other thing is like if you're doing a lot within Cncf, provide everything, you're doing all the links I want, everything that you're doing. Send me there. All of us, all episodes. Right. I because I can only I can only make a judgment on what you send me. Not.

00:43:35:24 - 00:43:39:00
Ronald
We're going to send you all the TikTok links and all that.

00:43:39:05 - 00:43:40:12
Katie
I love it.

00:43:40:17 - 00:43:51:29
Jan
We're also on the socials yet. If you're becoming an ambassador. But bring it. But bring it to you as as an ambassador.

00:43:51:34 - 00:44:15:43
Katie
Yeah. Like, kind of what the role of an ambassador is. So the best part, I think, of being an ambassador is, definitely always the recognition within the community that, you know, the CSIs is recognizing your efforts in the Cncf and the impact that you're making within the community, and that you're a trusted voice for people to go and ask questions.

00:44:15:43 - 00:44:43:57
Katie
So that's the biggest part for us is like the role of an ambassador, someone who, we're entrusting to carry on the brand for us as well and really speak to, why people should be participating in Cncf and why they should be contributing to our projects. So that's the, the, the first and most, utmost kind of like role of an ambassador.

00:44:44:02 - 00:45:15:37
Katie
Beyond that, there's always opportunities because there's other nodes and we're very small team and we have, a lot of really great programs, and we get asked to speak at a lot of really great events or participate in a lot of different things, or we want to implement stuff, but we don't have the resources available. And that's where ambassadors really get to come in and sign and and use their, skills to really support us, from the CNCF standpoint.

00:45:15:37 - 00:45:39:45
Katie
So I've had ambassadors speak at events for us. We launched a program at the beginning of the year called Chat Loop back off, which is where we kind of throw someone into, a project. We pick a random project, and we're like, today you're going to go and try to like spin up LinkerD, and while you're on live stream for an hour and see what kind of issues.

00:45:39:45 - 00:45:41:27
Ronald
You're running, that's that's really nice one.

00:45:41:27 - 00:45:43:36
Audra
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:43:40 - 00:46:10:45
Katie
And it's been great. Ambassadors have volunteered to go through that process and to run it and, be the person who's on screen for an hour trying to either successfully deploy a, a project or sometimes it's unsuccessful and you get to see them fail. And it's been, well-received by the community because people feel like, oh, I'm not in this alone, that I struggled with that.

00:46:10:49 - 00:46:37:03
Katie
And then it's also been well received by the maintainers because then they're like, oh, we need to add more documentation to here, or that's where people are getting problems. Let's go fix that. So that's been great. I've had ambassadors now help, lead the project pavilion towards KubeCon. So we have, the projects based, where products can host, kiosk icons.

00:46:37:08 - 00:47:02:24
Katie
And, now we're allowing ambassadors to stand up and take people through that. You know, how I go a little bit about each of the different projects and here's this project, as you noted, the tag sustainability, meetup was a, ambassador led idea that came forth where an ambassador said, I want to host a global meetup about sustainability.

00:47:02:24 - 00:47:19:52
Katie
Can I do that? And I said, sure. And he came to me and he goes, can I posted in the Ambassador Slack channel to see if I can get other ambassadors in different areas involved. And I said, sure. So hosted in the slack channel, had lots of people join in and they ran with it. So that's been pretty cool.

00:47:19:57 - 00:47:44:17
Katie
We've had an ambassador who started the Kube Train EU. Oh yeah. Yeah. So that was really awesome. There's a lot of really great ideas. And being an ambassador, you get to bring those ideas forth to the CNCF for us to kind of help support and highlight. But you also get to talk to the other ambassadors and get the support from the other ambassadors to make your ideas flourishing, come to life.

00:47:44:22 - 00:48:06:13
Katie
So that's kind of where the role is. It's it's definitely being that, representative of the CNCF and being an extension of our team and helping, drive programs forward for us and being part of these different opportunities, but also getting to bring in your own ideas and and creating opportunities for yourself and for the community.

00:48:06:18 - 00:48:26:16
Audra
Yeah. And if I may, there's also some cool perks, like not only the cool jacket and the badges that you get, but also a little bit of budget towards your community groups. If you run one with us, that could be on a monthly or bi monthly or quarterly basis. So there's all kinds of cool perks that highlight your work, in different ways.

00:48:26:16 - 00:48:34:05
Audra
But yeah, it's essentially growing their careers, putting them in front of the community under a microscope.

00:48:34:10 - 00:48:36:24
Jan
Where can I apply?

00:48:36:28 - 00:48:37:34
Katie
Yeah.

00:48:37:39 - 00:48:39:52
Ronald
I did that this year. I did.

00:48:39:57 - 00:48:41:06
Katie
Oh, you applied the yeah.

00:48:41:06 - 00:48:45:07
Ronald
I applied, I didn’t get it, but, Hopefully...

00:48:45:12 - 00:48:46:34
Katie
Are you going to apply again.

00:48:46:39 - 00:48:50:06
Ronald
Yeah of course. But because, I think I missed some links.

00:48:50:11 - 00:49:08:39
Katie
Yeah. If you go, if you go to, www.cncf.io/people/ambassadors, there's an apply now button. And it is open till September 30th. So anyone who's interested in applying definitely, definitely both of you get your applications and.

00:49:08:43 - 00:49:13:14
Ronald
I know what are you going to do on Friday.

00:49:13:19 - 00:49:14:17
Audra
Nice.

00:49:14:22 - 00:49:28:01
Ronald
One last question about the, the community, part, how do you ensure that this could the community stay in a diverse and inclusive? Is there anything you asked a special focus on when you look at the communities?

00:49:28:06 - 00:49:56:49
Audra
Yeah, I think a lot of it starts with organizers or maintainers and leading by example. So if you make sure that having diverse representation is within your core values before you, for example, create a community around a project or you create an agenda for your KCD, starting from the very get go with your core team and, and then branching off into your networks.

00:49:56:54 - 00:50:18:45
Audra
That's something we highly encourage. And with those monthly meetings, for example, that I have with KCD's, I'm constantly brainstorming ideas and, whether people want to take advantage of those meetings with me or not. Like sometimes I'm reaching out saying, hey, you know, I see your programs launch. So we didn't even review it. Like where all the non-male speakers to go.

00:50:18:45 - 00:50:19:20
Ronald
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:50:19:22 - 00:50:41:17
Audra
And, and then we're happy to jump in and help, like, hey, let me introduce you to the folks. No need to do some lightning talks, you know, and just figuring out a solution straight away. But yeah, again, a lot of it comes from your core values as a leader within the community, whether you're a project maintainer or an organizer of events.

00:50:41:22 - 00:51:23:49
Katie
Okay. And then from a CNCF level representation matters. Right? So we're always looking for ways of how we can continue to support, diversity and inclusion and, accessibility within our community. We're super proud of the deaf and hard of hearing working group and the work that they're doing. And, we're proud to be able to give them that platform that they so, rightfully deserve, to be able to continue to, educate people within the community and, and, get the support that they need.

00:51:23:54 - 00:52:00:29
Katie
There's a lot of other diversity, equity and inclusion programs that are always coming out. Quite frequently. And from a CNCF standpoint, we always try to help to, support those groups as well. I know that there's, talks about like a, BIPOC group coming out here in the next few, few months. I think that's something that people are looking into because it is a big portion that, it's trying to get the representation and the support that they deserve.

00:52:00:34 - 00:52:40:00
Katie
And we at the Kcfr are here to kind of, help foster what they need from, from a foundation level. And we always want to be educated on what we can do better. Right. We are only human. We're learning alongside of everyone. And I think that's the most important part when it comes to fostering and creating, a diverse community is being supportive and opening up your your ears and your mind and your heart to being educated on what we could be doing better.

00:52:40:04 - 00:53:01:14
Katie
Because we know that we could always be doing something better, and we're always striving to do it. To do that. So, again, it goes back to it. Let me say this is like I've said it with the kids that now I'm saying it with, this is like, we want to hear from the community because it's the only way that we can effectively make change.

00:53:01:19 - 00:53:12:58
Ronald
Yeah. And also you've got like the, the certification, the diversity and inclusion equality, certification from CNCF if you want to be an event organizer.

00:53:13:03 - 00:53:34:27
Katie
Yeah, absolutely. We make that a requirement for all of our kids that they have to take that training. So that way they understand the impact that they can make. Within their community. And I think that training has been a, a huge benefit for a lot of people. A lot of people have came back to us afterwards and then like, oh, this was a really great resource for us.

00:53:34:57 - 00:53:43:19
Audra
Yeah. Now we require it now for our community groups as well. So if you're applying, that's part of the application. Have you completed this course?

00:53:43:24 - 00:54:05:12
Ronald
Yeah, I know. It was easy for me because my wife is a DEI professional. So it’s the talk of the day around in the house. So okay. But it's nice to have this, that everybody needs to take that one, so it's cool. Yeah. Looking at, what trends do you see, shaping the future of tech events?

00:54:05:16 - 00:54:29:19
Katie
There's a lot of different things that come in to to the mind. It's right for me. I always love to see what trends are coming and surfacing when it comes to like bringing in younger demographics and contributors and what kind of, expectations that they have when it comes to being part of the, community overall and, and what an event means for them.

00:54:29:24 - 00:55:04:46
Katie
So there's been a lot of talk about how do we create education based like, training for careers, right. Like there's been a lot of, like, career growth, requests that came from the community. Even how we like market event. Right. Like, we've always been traditionally focused on like, the traditional what I say, traditional, social channels like LinkedIn or Twitter, or I guess, X what it's called now.

00:55:04:51 - 00:55:06:33
Ronald
Is there a discord channel?

00:55:06:37 - 00:55:26:42
Katie
Discord channel? Yeah. Those are kind of also, we are starting to do TikTok, so we are going to start doing TikToks. We're going to start. We got competitors. Yeah. I've been strongly advocating for TikTok for the last year. I think anyone that's ever like, talk to me. I'm always like, we should be doing a TikTok and everyone's like stop talking to me.

00:55:26:47 - 00:56:02:55
Katie
But I'm like, right? It's about, how we engage with the younger folks because for a project continue to grow and to stay relevant, you have to bring in younger developers to help support it and them to feel like they're accepted and engaged in the community. And it's a community that they want to be part of. So for when it comes to like trends for our events, it's really, I think what I encourage people to think about is like, what is the trends that like, you're seeing from like, younger people and how they kind of engage?

00:56:03:00 - 00:56:24:39
Katie
I've heard a lot of different people talk about like sustainability within events, and it is something that we're always looking forward to as well. Right. And recommending even on the KCD level, we've had, many organizers that have been part of the tag sustainability or have done their own sustainability efforts within their own local communities. Providing still.

00:56:24:43 - 00:56:29:40
Audra
Working group like, yeah, topics, for example, specific for those organizers.

00:56:29:45 - 00:56:57:23
Katie
Yeah, exactly. So, I think that's another big trend that like is going to be very, very, front and center over the next few years is like, how are we creating these sustainable, impactful events? And, and recognizing that like sustainability for a large conference like KubeCon Cloud native con is much different than sustainability when it comes to a KCD level.

00:56:57:25 - 00:57:14:30
Katie
Like what a KCD is able to do, doesn't always translate to what a team concatenation event can do when you're bringing in 10,000 plus people. Audra, What about you? I don't know what kind of trends you're always looking at.

00:57:14:34 - 00:57:40:10
Audra
I mean, it always goes back to open source for me and the transparency aspect. I, I noticed a lot of people appreciate context and why we're doing things. And so and every little decision that we make, if we can provide that context and people appreciate like, hey, thank you for giving me that insight. The in so to speak, making me privy to your changes.

00:57:40:15 - 00:58:03:07
Audra
You know, a lot of companies run events like businesses and, you know, it is it is a really large task, especially to run KubeCon. And so, I think if people are sharing more like, hey, this is what's successful for us or this is why we made the decision or this is why we're making it change.

00:58:03:12 - 00:58:34:22
Audra
Then people can, I think, appreciate that level of decision making and then give feedback like, hey, this didn't work. What do you think about trying this next year? So yeah, I'm hoping that, you know, the KCD’s honestly are, good example of this transparency. Like, we've kind of given a lot of the KubeCon strategy to these KCD organizers on a much smaller scale, but like, this is what our team does, and this is what works.

00:58:34:22 - 00:58:58:42
Audra
You know, maybe you can try it or KCD's try something. And we're like, okay, wait, a program committee of five people. I don't know if you could do a blind review for a program committee of 20 people. Like, there's going to be divided expectations, right? But giving it a shot at the KCD level and saying like, hey, now let's prioritize the content and the quality of the content.

00:58:58:42 - 00:59:05:33
Audra
And then let's really hone in on everything else that matters. And diversity is one of those things. For example.

00:59:05:38 - 00:59:09:50
Jan
Are those guidelines, are they open source?

00:59:09:59 - 00:59:18:37
Audra
So yeah, we do everything in GitHub in terms of like our recommendations and guidelines. It's we have repositories for everything.

00:59:18:39 - 00:59:30:43
Jan
If another event like Dev World or somebody, somebody else created big event, they can learn from you what you've learned from KubeCon.

00:59:30:48 - 00:59:54:45
Audra
Yeah. I mean, what we put out there in KCD’s, for example, they can definitely learn from, from our repository. And that's taken from KubeCon. And people are constantly submitting pull requests like, hey, I'd like to add to this repository, which I'm like, thank you, because I'm the one that's editing all the time, you know? And so it's nice to also contribute, on that level.

00:59:54:45 - 01:00:05:12
Audra
So being a contributor means not just contributing to a project repo, but, KCD or a community group repo.

01:00:05:16 - 01:00:07:37
Jan
Okay. Cool. Thank you.

01:00:07:42 - 01:00:10:46
Ronald
Are you up for the final questions, Jan? Final thoughts?

01:00:10:51 - 01:00:29:17
Jan
Final thoughts? Yeah. We always have a final question, but it's it's always technical. From nature. And I'm the technical guy, a more technical guy and then Ronald. But, how do you see the future of Kubernetes.

01:00:29:22 - 01:01:19:08
Katie
The future of Kubernetes is, I think, is really going to largely, I think depend on the different areas that it adopts into it. We're talking a lot about recently, you know, platform engineering and AI have been a big portion of it. Security has been a larger discussion. It's, it's security. It's always security everywhere. Right. But it's the it's definitely, one of those things that, like, we're always looking at what's the next tech trend and how do cloud native, applications and Kubernetes and all the projects that we host work into, what's coming up.

01:01:19:08 - 01:01:44:24
Katie
And, and if there's an opportunity to bring in a new project that helps to complement the landscape. Right. So I think that's kind of what where we stand on, like, what's next for Kubernetes? It's this kind of, being open to what the what the world brings forth and, and are saying is the newest trends and how we kind of adapt and adapt to it.

01:01:44:24 - 01:02:13:48
Katie
And, make it make space for, new people to be part of it, whether that's from the AI portion of it or platform engineering or security. It's just finding the right projects and, and the right people to be able to move, the foundation and, and each individual project moving forward. And that's the best part about, I think, open sources.

01:02:13:53 - 01:02:42:23
Katie
Every day we have new people coming in and contributing, especially when we start to broaden, the, the landscape of projects that come in is like, we could bring in a new project that has a subset of, like, maintainers and, contributors that then start to contribute to other projects because, the way that it works within the stack that they're working on it, it just kind of flows nicely.

01:02:42:36 - 01:03:05:11
Katie
Right? I the best example I have is like, I know a lot of maintainers that work on both Prometheus and Thanos and, that kind of happened really nicely because like, Thanos came in and a lot of people who were working on Thanos hadn't been in the CNCF, prior or, you know, were kind of starting come in.

01:03:05:11 - 01:03:28:57
Katie
And then they were like, oh, actually, these two complement each other and we're going to start working together. And that happens a lot more than I think people recognize and realize. So that's kind of where I see for me, the future is like just getting to be part of like that next trend and how we help to support the community to be part of it.

01:03:29:02 - 01:03:36:02
Jan
And it's the coming the next ten years. And Audra?

01:03:36:07 - 01:03:55:43
Audra
Yeah. I think just like Linux, Kubernetes is probably going to be everywhere in the sense that it's just built in to our everyday lives. And it's just not something we have to really think about anymore. And it's all the projects that support, or work with it, work well with it.

01:03:55:48 - 01:03:56:51
Jan
Awesome.

01:03:56:56 - 01:03:58:09
Ronald
Nice.

01:03:58:13 - 01:04:00:01
Jan
So we're here to stay Ronald.

01:04:00:01 - 01:04:06:25
Ronald
Yeah, we're here to stay for the coming years. Yeah. Nice to know. Yeah. You're not done with me yet? Jan.

01:04:06:30 - 01:04:11:13
Audra
No, definitely not.

01:04:11:18 - 01:04:34:57
Ronald
All Audra and Katie, thank you so much for taking your time to have this, lovely chat with us and, to having. Yeah, it's just great having you on there. Our, Yeah. A small but ever growing podcast. And then really, hope to talk to you again, in the future and see you at to the great events like the KCD’s and the KubeCon’s.

01:04:35:02 - 01:04:43:20
Katie
Yeah, thank you so much. It was a real pleasure.